Consider this an open thread. I want to try the poll feature. Cast your vote after the jump...
Aug 19, 2008 · BuddhaJones Message Board
Biggest Obstacle to Nichiren Buddhism?
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Since I live in Canada I guess I can't vote (or don't count) but if I may make a suggestion ...could you perhaps put a button that says "all of the above"Frank
Beryl; having practiced every single day of my life since 1975 with both the "Org." and Nichiren Shoshu ... I am convinced that the biggest obstacle is indeed the failure to meet one of the "Three Proofs" (San sho). Specifically the first proof, "Monsho".The Three Proofs were actually what drew me in at the beginning. I had started study for the Anglican church some years before and had started teaching myself to read ancient Greek. I discovered the Gnostic gospels (which actually talk about reincarnation) and other 'ignored' texts. I asked the teachers at the seminary about it and they blew my questions away.When I discovered our Practice, The guarantee that no one was monkeying around with the writings with the Founder a far cry from the Christian "bible" that every monk who illuminated one in the Dark Ages added his two cents (or edited out) to the texts. Never mind the fact that most of the 'New Testament' was written years after the death of Yesua Bin Joseph.Then I realized that only a chump change selection of the Goshos were being translated or even being addressed, and the translations were WIDELY divergent ... allowing huge latitudes in the nature of the religion (as told to new potential believers) and what it is supposed to 'do' for you and what you are supposed to 'do' as a function of the religion. I actually had a Senior Leader in the 'Org' inform my wife (of now 26 years ... who's also NEVER missed gongyo once) that from the standpoint of the Org. it wasn't "appropriate" for her to move in with me before we were married.Where did he dig that up? I'll tell you, from the 'loosey goosey' "interpretations" of the Goshos making us fail the first Proof as badly as the Christians fail theirs. It also keeps us from ever becoming a "mainstream" religion in the West.One of the major writings of Nichiren which is very central to the foundations of the religion is the "Kaimoku-Sho" or "on the opening of the Eyes." In Romanji "Ware narabi-ni waga deshi / shonan aritomo utagai kokoro nakuba / jinen-ni bukkai ni itarubeshi. Ten-no kago naki koto-wo / utagawa-zare. Gense-no anon narazaru koto-wo / nageka-zare. Waga deshi-ni / choseki oshie shikadomo utagai-wo okoshite / mina suteken. Tsutanaki monono naraiwa / yakusoku-seshi kot-wo / makoto-no toki-wa / waururu narubeshi".First, listen to the Gakkai's translation: "No matter what obstacles we may encounter, I Nichiren and my disciples can eventually attain Buddhahood unless we hold doubts about true Buddhism. You should never doubt the protection of the Buddhist gods. You should never be sorry that you are not leading a peaceful life. Although I have taught this to my disciples day and night, many have deserted the Lotus Sutra. At a crucial moment, the foolish will often forget what they have promised".Now listen to the translation from a legitimate priest of the the temple,"...Although my disciples and I may encounter various hardships, if we do not harbor doubt in our hearts, we will as a matter of course attain Buddhahood. Do not have doubts because Heaven doesn't lend you protection. Do not weep because you have no security in this life. Although I have taught this to my disciples morning and evening, they all harbored doubts and abandoned their faith. The nature of a foolish man is that when the crucial moment comes, he forgets the promises he has made".... Kaimoku Sho, p 574: ref.: MWND Vol. II pg. 202.Look at the difference in semantics! (and the message they convey)! The first version was translated by Japanese lay-leaders not Americans with bad Japanese, who then told entire general membership of the American Soka Gakkai to memorize it as "Gospel." It was as if they really didn't care at all what the impact of their twisting of the teachings of Nichiren had on the US members they had lured in to the "Soka Gakkai". Both the Temple and the Gakkai incessantly use this term "True" Buddhism, which I have always had heartburn with. I understand the intent of the phraseology but to say "the Othodox Teachings of Nichiren" would accomplish the same thing and you aren't going to convince people that it is the Orothodox version of Nichiren's buddhism just by calling it "True Buddhism" (Nor do I suspect that Nichiren or Nikko used the phrase). But it persists.Now look at the same passage Translated by a British scholar of Japanese (and a dear friend who lives in Brussels) Martin Bradley. Even though my disciples and I may go through all kinds of hardships, but by having no doubt in our minds, we will attain to the Buddha realm as a matter of course. Even without the deva's lending their support, you should not harbour doubts, nor should you lament if your present existence is neither peaceful nor quiet. Albeit that this is what I teach my disciple morning and evening but even so when skepticism arises they all tend to abandon (their faith). It is very often the case that heedless people are forgetful of their promises when the moment of truth comes about. The reality is that a Priest of the temple will tell you today there are no such things as "conspicuous" benefits in the "Latter day of the Law" (also a phrase badly translated), only "inconspicuous" ones. Another phrase of the Gosho (a different one) reads "Suffer what there is to suffer, enjoy what there is to enjoy, and continue your journey of faith". That's a far cry from the above passage isn't it? Mind you the Temple seems oblivious to the fact that the "Japanese to English" dictionaries that Japan still works with today in their "attempts" to understand our language or translate their concepts ... are garbage. They originated by virtue of Christian missionaries "transliterating" with Christian concepts ... not merely English concepts mind you. Look again at our second "prayer""Niza" (second prayer, appreciation to the Dai-Gohonzon)"Namu honmon juryo-hon no Kajin; monteihichin no daiho; Honchi nanshi; kyochi myogo,kuon ganjo jijuyu hoshin; nyorai no gototai; jukkaihonnu joju; ji no ichinen sanzen; ninpo ikka;dokuichi honmon kaidan no Dai-Gohonzon, go-ikobaizo goriyaku kodai go-ho'on shatoku no ontame ni"Nam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-Kyonow the current Nichiren Shôshû official translation,I express my sincere devotion to the Dai-Gohonzon -- the soul of the Juryo chapter of the essential Teachings and the Supreme Law concealed within its depths, the fusion of the realm of the Original Infinite Law and the inherent wisdom within the Buddha of Kuon Ganjo, the manifestation of the Buddha of Intrinsically Perfect Wisdom, the eternal coexistence of the Ten Worlds, the Entity of Ichinen Sanzen, the Oneness of the Person and the Law, and the Supreme Object of Worship of the High Sanctuary. I also express my heartfelt gratitude for its beneficence and pray that Its profound benevolent power may ever more widely prevailNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoAnd finally my old friend Martin Bradley's (un Christianized rendition)The Second Consideration To Be Borne In Mind; Making offerings to the Fundamental Object of VenerationI consecrate my life to the essence of the Chapter on the Life Span of the original gateway: the universal Dharma that lies esoterically submerged within the text: the subtle integration of the objective realm and the subjective insight of the original terrain that is so hard to understand: the primordial infinite original beginning: the Actual fundamental substance of the self-received reward-body that is used by the Tathâgata: the originally existent ten realms that dwell in eternity: the pragmatic single instant of thought containing three thousand existential spaces: the oneness of the person and the Dharma: the one and only Universal Fundamental Object of Veneration of the altar of the precept of the original gateway.May its majestic light doubly increase, its benefit spread out over all and may we thankfully requite its virtue.Nam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoNam-Myoho-Renge-KyoSound like a little trivial exercise in semantics? Remember? we started this discussion earlier. The Japanese to English dictionaries that were originally done ... were authored by Christian Missionaries who put Christian interpretations through out the work and that has carried forward to this very day. Even the most highly acclaimed one (Kenkusha). Consider that this is a religion that says there is no composite "soul" that you merge back into the whole and pieces of you will come back. This makes the phrase completely contradictory, yet there seems to be absolutely no concern for the impact the "transliteration" has. If you had asked one of our (fairly recent) local Chief Priests about the issue he'll tell you "it doesn't really mean 'soul' it means "core"" but since I started my practice in 1975 ... the prayer book ... through several revisions to take out prayers put in for the Soka Gakkai's success still contains the word "soul" in several places .. most notably there in the Second Prayer as a description of the Dai Gohonzon.There seems to be no comprehension that the word implies rebirth (transmigration) or the Christian concept of "heaven and hell". Nor any concern that the semantical impact to westerners is to imply such and weaken the case of the religion itself for prospective new believers who are not misfits in dire need or unhappy souls willing to accept any answers ... however seemingly flawed. No question that it was my "karma" that it happened, but is that where the buck stops? I didn't tell myself that to practice Buddhism I had to join this weirdo "peace cult". I told myself I wanted to practice Buddhism. The Soka Gakkai told me they were acting on behalf of the temple, and the Priest said in effect 'yeah ... what they said.' Not once have I ever seen in writing from the head temple "we're sorry we made such a bad call on the Soka Gakkai and that we told you that you had to join them" or any even vague inference that our Priesthood had any responsibility for telling me to do that. Does it mean that I want to quit my practice of Buddhism after all these years ... not a chance ... do I think they are perfect ... also the answer would be "not a chance". I did 'join' to practice a religion, that's what I have done now for almost 30 years at this writing.Bottom line? As long as we have partial and 'weasel-worded' translations (and history) ... with few exceptions only desperate people clutching at straws and 'fringies' will practice Nichiren Buddhism in the West. Nichiren Buddhism will either have a 'near death' experience here or manage to step outside of themselves and see what they look like. I'm part Cherokee (and part Iroquois); Another part Cherokee, Will Rogers said "the white man looks someone in the face and says, 'oh I understand him!' the red man goes around behind the same person to see WHAT HE IS SEEING, and only then ventures that he understands him.No Nichiren sect in the West can say they are doing that to the people the propose to propagate to.jccampb
Frank, you beat me to it. Add my vote for "All of the Above".
Here's how that passage from the Kaimoku Sho reads in the Nichiren Shu version:"Not only I, Nichiren, but also my disciples will reach the land of Buddha unfailingly so long as we all hold on to unwavering faith no matter what difficulty confronts us. I have always told my disciples not to have a doubt about the lack of heavenly protection and not to lament the lack of tranquility in this world. I am afraid, however, that they might all have doubts about these and no longer listen to me. It seems only natureal that ordinary people, in face of reality, will forget what they promised." "Open Your Eyes," Writings of Nichiren Shonin, Doctrine 2, p. 109.I like to read gosho and the Lotus Sutra with 2 or 3 translations open at once, which seems to help me grasp the meaning better.
Thanks, you guys. I didn't even think of "all of the above." I went back in to edit the poll, but I can't (alas.) In my next question, I'll be more inclusive -- Frank, Canadians are more than welcome to respond. Sorry for my omission.I guess the next poll question should have something to do with "how can we resolve all these obstacles?"...
Jcccampb, you raise a huge, huge issue. Last night, I had a long conversation with another chanter who brought up exactly the same problem: Nichiren left us a treasure trove of his own writings, but on which translations should we rely? Does every translation/translator have an agenda that we need to be wary of?This issue goes to the heart of so many obstacles -- lack of standardized, agreed-upon Nichiren practice, self-serving sects, sect wars, all of it. Meantime, ordinary practitioners who just want to understand Buddhism, have to wade through all these competing influences to get a kernel of insight.Perhaps Michele's solution is best -- to study with multiple translations. But wow. How cumbersome is that? That requires an incredibly serious commitment.I've been thinking of how we can all pool our brainpower and experience to come up with a normative "guide" to Nichiren practice and doctrine -- something like a Nichiren wikipedia where differing views can be presented and hashed out. More on this as it develops...
Going to the root obstacle, I would say it is a given individual's emotion-backed attachment to having any outside authority's approval of how, where, why, which gohonzon they use, what their real beliefs are etc. etc. etc. One can love and feel compassion for others without caring about whether others think they are right or good or smart or insane or whatever. There was a great book title some decades ago (I believe the book's author was one Terry Cole Whitaker but wouldn't bet on it) that I've always taken to heart: "What You Think of me is None of My Business." This is the radical taking responsibility answer. Stepping outside that space, I would be in the "All of the above camp."Best,Jai
Hi, Beryl -I truly don't believe there is any "weasel-wording" going on. I have no trouble believing that all of the different translators whose work is listed above had valid reasons for making the word choices they did, without any hidden agendas or ill intent.I do believe that they were each operating from their own viewpoint, and that any of those viewpoints may differ markedly from my own while still being completely honest and sincere.I personally don't think that a "normative guide" to Nichiren practice and doctrine is necessary - I have long since figured out for myself that one-size-fits-all only works in homogeneous societies (and not all that well there). I personally think it's a better solution to have a number of different interpretations and implementations - offering folks a choice of practice style and doctrine within the overall category of Nichiren Buddhism. I see this developing organically now - it is just accompanied by a lot of unnecessary and unfortunate rhetoric and emotion.A Nichiren Wikipedia could be a big help, if we can lose all of the "my way is the only way" and "everyone else is heretical" stuff. It would be great to have a listing of the varying views and practice styles of lots of different Nichiren Sanghas available to help folks decide what will aid them in their practice, or which direction they want to explore into. I just don't think the whole thing needs to be aimed at conclusions or finding the "one true" answer; because I don't think that such a one-size-fits-all approach leads to widely declaring and spreading Nichiren Buddhism, especially in North America. A model resembling the spread of Protestant Christianity in North America (lots of different small goups, all organic within their communities) seems far more likely to have a chance of truly taking place, at least to me. Imagine groups from Nichiren Shoshu, Rissho Kosei Kai, SGI, Nichiren Shu, NBAA, Kempon Hokke, Honmon Butsuryu Shu and Independents all getting together to celebrate Oeshiki (Nichiren's passing). THAT to me is one possible image of "widely declared and spread" Nichiren Buddhism. The only thing preventing it is all of us. Besides, how can we attempt to create world peace if we cannot even get along with our brothers and sisters in faith? I take Nichiren literally when he said "My disciples and lay followers {irrespective of school} should eliminate discrimination between themselves and others. Cooperate with each other just as fish and water, and chant Namu Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo with one mind although you are different in person. Cooperation is the most important thing for your transmission of the teaching liberating from birth and death to your posterity. This is exactly what I have tried to disseminate till this day. If you can carry this out, our great vow to disseminate the Wonderful Dharma throughout the world will be fulfilled." (Shoji Ichidaiji Kechimyaku Sho or Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life) {bracketed italics mine}Just my opinions, of course. Your Mileage May Vary.
in the case of Taisekiji (for I cannot speak with authority on any other sect) the problem is deeper than so-called cultural expectations ... it's rank chauvanism. A powerful group of priests believe that Nichiren buddhism is "Japanese" and that barbarians cannot hope to rise culturally high enough to appreciate or master the sacerdotal side of the equation. Also, you left "priest worship" off the list. This is a problem. Fawning members somehow believe that priests are either inherently sage or somehow more enlightened than they are. The feudal temple system still in place simply reinforces and rewards the most hide-bound conservatives. Also, idolatry must be added to the list. Nichiren clearly teaches that the practitioner's own enlightened nature endows the Gohonzon, not the other way around. If we pray to a piece of paper or even to a piece of paper that we believe is a god-like being ... of a fool's rabbit's foot ... we corrupt and pervert the True Teaching. Sad, sad, sad ... but immutable Nature/Dharma proceeds at its appointed pace and our goal must be to realize the greatest degree of our own enlightened potential. love, Beeborb
There already is a normative Nichiren Buddhism, and it's SGI's version. They're the biggest and the most influential, and through their financial support of scholarship, they are the "gold standard."And yet there are so many things that are debatable -- I would even say self-serving and weaselly -- in some of their word choices and their emphasis.Chanting Nam instead of Namu is normative Nichiren Buddhism -- that's how most chanters chant -- because of SGI's influence.I have said before that I admire how Shambhala is taught in the U.S. The basics are very clear: sit, breathe, observe the breath. Each person can pretty much do whatever they want, but the basics remain: sit, breathe, observe the breath. Not too fancy. Not too complicated. Easy to explain to friends and novices.Can we do the same with Nichiren Buddhism? Chant...but chant what? Nam or Namu? In English or in Japanese? Is gongyo necessary? What qualifies as gongyo? Chant to the Gohonzon...but do we need a Gohonzon? If we do, should it be one inscribed by Nichiren, or by a sect priest? Can I download it off the Internet, or do I need a priest to give it to me?Practice with a sangha, but what qualifies as a sangha? Do I need to join a sect?Nichiren Buddhism allows for individuality and variation, but do you see how this immense variety of interpretation can be a barrier to newcomers, and a source of confusion even for old-timers?I totally agree with you Engyo that a massive inter-sect Chant Up (like a "meet up") would be an outstanding achievement. If only my living room were larger....
Hi, Brooke -I have to disagree on several points.>>"There already is a normative Nichiren Buddhism, and it's SGI's version. They're the biggest and the most influential, and through their financial support of scholarship, they are the "gold standard." "<<This may have once been true. If the SGI were the only group pursuing such scholarship I wouldn't argue, but they aren't. An Amazon.com search on Nichiren finds more volumes of Nichiren's writings translated by other groups than by SGI. SGI's translation work also does not acknowledge modern scholarship into the authenticity of writings attributed to Nichiren.>>"Chanting Nam instead of Namu is normative Nichiren Buddhism -- that's how most chanters chant -- because of SGI's influence."<<If you are going to talk strictly about numbers, you have a point. If you are going to look at different groups as groups, you might be surprised.>>"Can we do the same with Nichiren Buddhism? Chant...but chant what? Nam or Namu? In English or in Japanese? Is gongyo necessary? What qualifies as gongyo?"<<Does it matter, to someone who hasn't practiced before? Learn whatever it is that those who are teaching you are teaching. If they offer daily service in one form, learn that. If you decide to chnge to a different group down the road, then learn a new way. Is this a problem? It doesn't seem to be one to me.>>"Chant to the Gohonzon...but do we need a Gohonzon? If we do, should it be one inscribed by Nichiren, or by a sect priest? Can I download it off the Internet, or do I need a priest to give it to me?"<<Same answer. Learn what they are doing where you are when you start. Do as they do. And when you gain the confidence to study and understand for yourself, make your own decisions.>>"Practice with a sangha, but what qualifies as a sangha? Do I need to join a sect?"<<Sangha can mean any number of things. Lots of variations are possible. Just like Christian churches......do you like fire and brimstone?...ritual and ceremony?...fantastic choral and organ music?...a warm, welcoming "big tent"?...a loosely organized, do-your-own-thing group? Try out all the options, see which one fits best.>>"Nichiren Buddhism allows for individuality and variation, but do you see how this immense variety of interpretation can be a barrier to newcomers, and a source of confusion even for old-timers?"<<The source of confusion is the concept that there is ONLY ONE TRUE WAY. Lose that, everything else becomes possible. If we aren't calling Nichiren groups we don't practice with heretical, then newcomers have nothing to fear by trying out different flavors. If we lose the OOTW concept, then old-timers can make their own decisions without fear.Again, these are my opinions. Your Mileage May Vary.
Well said Beeborg,I would further refer people to Cris Roman's book (recently posted here on BJ chapter 13) for a very astute synopsis of the problem. Check out The Japanese Factor and Propagation and Cultural Myth.As you stated chauvanism is a big problem in some forms of Buddhism. Nichiren Buddhism (as it has been erroneously interpretated)is a prime example and this must be corrected for acceptance in the 21st Century.I have addressed the topic of "Idolatry" in a recent diary post on BJ "Roosters, $10 Words and Concepts"
With respect,FrankEngyo and Brooke -- Thanks for your thoughtful exchange. I agree, Engyo, that if we can all just drop the "One True Way" mindset, things would indeed be merrier in the Nichiren world.Such a broad view, however, seems to imply that there is no "wrong way" of practicing Nichiren Buddhism. Perhaps this is true. Perhaps this is the radical beauty of Nichiren Buddhism: It's impossible to do it incorrectly, unskillfully or harmfully. In other words, if you embrace Nam(u) Myoho Renge Kyo in whatever form (English, Dutch, etc.) and whatever format (Gohonzon, gongyo) it's all good.This view strikes me as similar to the Diamond Precept that Cris wrote about in a recent installment of his book.However. And it's a big however.Maybe it is my own deep prejudice that makes me recoil from a complete "anything goes" mentality. Believe me, I have appreciation for many of the differences among groups. I do believe that Nichiren gave us a practice that we are meant to tailor to our circumstances.I do have trouble, however, saying that it's OK to preach and practice Nichiren Buddhism as a tool of revenge -- chanting for the destruction or punishment of others, for example.Perhaps this falls into the realm of ethics rather than basic practice. But I can think of at least on major sect that has elevated "destruction" to a tenet of faith and practice.Is there no "wrong way" to practice Nichiren Buddhism?
Hi again, Beryl ->>"Is there no "wrong way" to practice Nichiren Buddhism?"<<I am sure there are wrong ways to do this. I have personally changed from one school to another over just such issues. I don't mean to say that one shouldn't make value judgements about practice style and doctrine; just that one shouldn't project one's own choices on everyone else.My point is that I made that decision for myself, based on my own understanding of Nichiren's teachings and my own development in faith and practice. There are thousands of other sincere practitioners who did not feel the same way I did about the issues I cared deeply about. It is just as wrong for me to attempt to force others to practice in the way I believe correct as it is for me to practice in a way I feel is incorrect.I'm not going to tell you that you must make the same decision I did. I am not necessarily going to make the same decision you will in a similar circumstance. What I am saying is that we should treat these as personal decisions, and not go pronouncing heresy over anyone who chooses differently than we do. I have no problem offering advice if someone asks, and explaining my rationale, but I won't condemn someone for choosing otherwise.I happen to personally disagree strongly with some of the positions you referred to; but I would still rather someone practiced Nichiren Buddhism with one of those groups than joined a prosperity megachurch for example, or quit practicing altogether. Again, these are my personal opinions, and your mileage may vary.
Thanks, Engyo. I appreciate your response. You've given me a lot to think about.
Have you noticed a common thread in the exchanges you and I have had on this site? I am searching for a true teacher and true principles. You appear with patient replies telling me I need to find answers on my own. Do you know how maddening this is?Why can't you make it easy and tell me what I should believe? (grin)
Brooke,I am one who does not necessarily think the same way as others who have written on this board, specifically regarding some of the incisive questions that you have asked. Also, I have different experience, as do we all. And I would submit I am a fairly seasoned, educated Buddhist on the subjects you asked about. If you wish, feel free to write me at my email "armchair" address. I gather it is on this site, as Jai wrote me, if you care what I would have to say about these things, as an opinion, mind you, but a different one. The relative nature of Gohonzons, the use of gongyo to change one's life condition, etc.Namaste,Armchair
DearDenver & all -Is anyone going to attend this conference? It will be held this coming weekend in Denver.http://www.shin-ibs.edu/denver My minister will be attending, and there is at least one Nichiren Buddhist (from the Bowling Club) sharing in a presentation. Should be interesting.............